Ep. 002: Care. Love. Connection. | Part 2 with Nicole Gann
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In Episode 2, host Amanda Wiedenfeld continues her interview with Nicole Gann, MS, SPHR, President & CEO of Juliette Fowler Communities. They discuss the power of words and the importance of continuous personal growth. Nicole shares her unexpected journey into aging services, and the two discuss changing perceptions of aging services and the benefits of living in a community. Nicole shares a powerful moment that has shifted her perspective on aging and emphasizes the value of continual learning and growth.
This episode elevates the conversation with takeaways like:
Words have power and can be used to uplift or harm ourselves and others.
Continuous personal growth is essential for personal and professional development.
The path to a fulfilling career can be unexpected and may lead to unexpected opportunities.
Living in a community can provide connection and purpose and combat isolation and loneliness.
Aging brings new experiences and perspectives, and embracing them can lead to personal growth and empathy.
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Episode breakdown:
00:30 | Welcome back and what to expect
01:00 | #careislove campaign
02:05 | Part 2 of Interview with Nicole Gann
03:06 | The power of words
04:23 | Revisiting impactful works
05:11 | From manufacturing to aging services
08:53 | An unexpected path
10:15 | This is different
14:08 | Changing perceptions of aging services
18:46 | Uplift Aging: Unfiltered
25:19 | Wrap up
26:20 | Outro
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Special thanks to Nicole Gann, MS, SPHR and Juliette Fowler Communities in Dallas, Texas!
This episode is made possible by LeadingAge Texas' Partners: Functional Pathways, LeadingAge Texas Health Plan, Inc., and Ziegler; along with LeadingAge Texas' Diamond Sponsor: Value First, and Platinum Sponsor: Communities of Faith, RRG.
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Visit upliftaging.org/episodes for show notes and more information about each episode.
Join the movement as we continue to elevate the conversation on aging by visiting upliftaging.org and following us on our socials @upliftaging.
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The Uplift Aging Podcast is a production of LeadingAge Texas.
Transcript - Ep. 002 (auto-generated)
INTRO (00:04.258)
This is Uplift Aging, the podcast that's more than a podcast. This is a challenge to embrace growing older, confront negative stereotypes, and better understand what may come with aging. I'm your host, Amanda Wiedenfeld. Together, let's uplift aging.
(00:31.598)
AMANDA
Welcome back. This is episode two of Uplift Aging, and we are so excited to have part two of my interview with Nicole Gann, president and CEO of Juliet Fowler Communities in Dallas, Texas. In episode one, Nicole and I talk a lot about life and what aging means. We chat about personal growth and the importance of inspiring others to focus on the same. In the second half, Nicole gives us a bit of life advice and timely for Leading Age Texas's #CareIsLove campaign that focuses on heartfelt commitment of care workers and how they have become friends and family with those they serve. We not only get to hear Nicole's story about how she first started in the field of aging services and the love and care that was shown to her by residents when she was just starting out, but we also get to hear Nicole, and I'm sure you heard it in her voice and her words in episode one, but we get to hear from Nicole about how much she loves what she does. This is really a showcase of the commitment of Nicole and others like her in our field who truly love what they do, love who they serve, and become friends and really family with residents and their families. It's just a feel-good episode, and it's full of love. I'm excited for you to hear it. So let's dive in.
(02:06.83)
AMANDA
… Yes, we’re humans, exactly and that's kind of beautiful. We can have those moments but then we can also because we're working on ourselves continuously, recalibrate.
NICOLE
Yeah I was listening to this is an older book but it's called The Four Agreements but I like to listen to it periodically on audible because the person that recorded it does just a masterful job. The talk about the Word and how we are one of the creations that can use Word, right? And how powerful that word is. And the narrator equates it to magic, that our words are magic, but they can also be black magic when we use our words against ourselves and others. And so in my work that I've done about trying to not have judgment, starting with myself, which then extends out to others, that hit me so powerfully here recently that I was just like, oh my gosh, you know? That's so true. And we've been talking about this, this whole podcast from anti -aging to ageless, right? Just that little shift, but words matter. Words matter that we speak, that we think, that we let into our brains and then therefore that, you know, we have to give out to others. And so think about that as well.
AMANDA
I appreciate that you go back and revisit a book that you know has served you well.
NICOLE
Well, I have to! Because I got introduced to it at a different age and you know, I think any book that I've ever read that I've loved, I go back and revisit it and it's teaching me something new because I'm ready to learn the lesson. Now there are times when you're not ready to learn the lesson and because you're not, what you do is you go out and you seek lots of evidence to support that stance. Why either author is a crazy person or why nobody would buy into this theory or it's not part of the norm, whatever the case is, you build your arsenal and you use it all. But I find that when I go back to, especially the books that touched me in some way, that there's so much more to learn. But it's my own path of also pouring into my brain. Just like I said a minute ago, I'm making choices of what I listen to and what I read and I'm trying to do things that keep me the most aligned. You know, it's kind of like working a muscle, right? To have your core strength. I'm working my brain to stay most aligned to my core principles so that I'm going to have the best chance of showing up in regardless of whatever life gives me.
AMANDA
You're making those active choices continuously. And then the person who you are now as you've aged into who you are now being different, like you talked about earlier than who you were a decade ago is receiving this new information, but the same content, just new information is coming into you and serving you well.
NICOLE
Yeah.
AMANDA
That's a good tip. Revisiting.
NICOLE
I'll be rereading Brene Brown's books my whole life.
AMANDA
Oh, I have no doubt. I have no doubt.
(05:11.278)
AMANDA
Well, can you tell us a little bit about how you came into aging services, especially… you mentioned your manufacturing background.
NICOLE
So I got here by accident, but I got here nonetheless. Right. And so I was on, you know, the climbing the staircase to my life. Right. I was an undergraduate. I got picked up by a huge manufacturing corporation as an intern and worked as an intern and then they offered me a job my you know last year of my undergraduate degree and so I worked full-time and you know finished school and they were very progressive and they had a way of throwing interns into situations that we had no frame of reference on with little to no direction because the whole test was basically psychological to see how you responded, what you tried to do to move an initiative forward from the framework of what you understood. I mean, they weren't going to let anybody get hurt. But basically, I felt like I was a little bit of a lab rat, but in a good way.
AMANDA
Trial by fire, you learn so much.
NICOLE
And so, I'm building my career. And several years into my full -time employment, they decide the location that I'm at, which had 5 ,000 associates was going to be closed down and so it was going to be parceled off. And so my transfer came in to Brunswick, New Jersey. Now, nothing against Brunswick, New Jersey, because I'm sure it's beautiful. But I was born in Florida, raised in Louisiana. I've lived the longest in Texas. So my entire experience is in the southern perimeter states, right? So New Jersey seems like it's, you know. I don't know, the Asian continent.
AMANDA
A world away.
NICOLE
A world away. And so, because we didn't have access to things that give you better insight to other states. Like now that I've watched Real Housewives of New Jersey, I think New Jersey is like super fun place to live. But I didn't know this in the 90s. And so I was like, I went home and I told my husband, I was like, listen, I can get transferred to Brunswick, New Jersey, you know, and he's making his career in the Dallas area. He's like, yes, so that's not going to happen. So I thought, OK, well, I'm just going to wait. I'm going to get another, you know, corporate manufacturing job.
And someone that I had worked with when I had first moved to Dallas, a boss of mine, he was a controller, called me up and he said, oh, gosh, I heard about the company, you know, closing the location down. He's like, could you come help me out because I need someone that could come help me set up an HR department and kind of a risk and safety. And then he dropped the hammer on me and said, at a nursing home in Oak Cliff, to which I was like, that's a hard no, sir. I don't even know why you asked me that question because case you didn't notice, I am climbing the corporate ladder.
AMANDA
Like, how dare you?
NICOLE
Like, yes. How dare you, sir? No, that's not my image. That's not what I'm going to do. No. And I really was coming from the perspective that only 20-year-olds can come from, like just the aghast. Like, do you know me? And so a couple more phone calls. He was like, just come and help me out. OK, I'm not asking for a lifetime commitment. So I was like, fine. Okay.
And the organization happened to be Grace Presbyterian Village in Oak Cliff. And I ended up working for that organization and all its iterations for 12 years before I moved on to Fowler.
And I'll tell you this, I'll never forget my first day there. And my boss at the time walked me into a resident apartment because they were having census challenges. So the good news was, is I had my own private bathroom. The bad news was that my desk was two two-drawer file cabinets with a literal door on top of it. No. And a box from the Best Buy or Circuit City or whatever it was called back in the early 2000s on my desk and that was one of two computers in the whole place and they didn't know anything about networks and any of that. So I was coming out of a Fortune 100 manufacturing organization. So needless to say, I was accustomed to, you know, 40 member IT departments and you know, like I would just show up and all my stuff would just be magically there. And I was like, what? I'm going to be packing this box. And so I remember calling my friends to say, well, the good news is, my desk has a cup holder. So that's a bonus.
But it was, it's like going back into kind of, you know, the dark ages and this was 2000. You know, we had just survived Y2K. And I thought, well, this is where Y2K went down in the nursing homes in Dallas. It happened right here. So I don't know what happened. I was fine, but now it's bad.
But the long story short is I was in a resident apartment on a hallway that was called the Bluebonnet Wing. And the residents there would come by every single day and they would stop in and they would say hello. And you know how when you first take a new job and you're really putting in the hours, plus I was, you know, early on in my career and I thought that's what you had to do kind of thing. And I mean, I would just work and work and work. And then they started to get worried about me and worried about my marriage and like, don't you think that your husband wants to spend some time with you? Or they would bring me a sandwich because they knew I hadn't eaten. Or they would bring me some cookies. And I mean, they would just have the most lovely, encouraging things to say. And it was that first awareness, like, this is different. This is different than me being in an office and talking to associates and, you know, dealing with a product, which I loved, but it really was apples and oranges.
And it was those early days, not only with the residents, but you know, there was a time at Grace when I really felt like it was Camelot, that all of the leadership, you know, was just sharing the same passion and vision. And we were marching forward. I mean, we were changing the world, saving lives. We really felt that collectively. And you know, you get such a deep-seated connection, you know, to who you serve and who you serve with. Right.
And I feel that same way even now today about Fowler and a lot of the same people that I worked with in those early days when I was having to put a computer together on a desk, that was a door.
AMANDA
Are we calling it a desk?
NICOLE
Are we calling it a desk? I mean, it served its purpose. But I work with them today. And not to say that there weren't hardships, because some of those relationships did not persevere of ones that I thought were the most important to me at the time. Now, that's the truth of the story.
But the reason why I don't leave the industry is because I see what we had at Grace replicated in so many communities around the state. I see it by the leadership that we have on our board of directors. I see it in our membership. I see it in every person that comes to the leadership collective. And it's always renewing that belief that I have that we're changing lives and changing the world. Right. And I don't want to leave that even when it is hard because what would be my alternative? I might go to something that's easier, but it wouldn't fulfill me in the same way. And I'm real clear about that. And so got here by accident, stayed by choice. And I guess at some point I will have my retirement party too. And, you know, I will be passing the baton on to someone else. And I hope it's someone in the leadership collective, you know, that I somehow, you know, worked with. That's my story.
AMANDA
I love that story. And I'm just envisioning that first day, you walking in coming from that Fortune 100 company with the 20-person IT department and seeing that quote-unquote desk. And then, so you're just standing there in this little nonprofit nursing home as he sold it to you so well. And you're like, what?
NICOLE
It was very Twilight Zone. And I'll throw this in for my HR friends because that was my first job as director of HR and risk management. The personnel files, which is what they called them, were in manila folders and they were stacked up on the perimeter of this room. So they weren't like in a file cabinet. It's like they were stacked up literally about waist-high on the perimeter. Every personnel file known to man since this organization had been created. So that was super fun.
AMANDA
That's terrifying.
NICOLE
It's terrifying. Anyway… but if all worked out!
AMANDA
But it all worked out!
NICOLE
Good times!
(14:08.494)
AMANDA
The people who are like, huh, a nursing home is something other than what I grew up thinking it was. Or there are communities now that aren't just for nursing. All of these things, people are like, huh, I didn't know there's this whole other world, right? Like, what would you say to them to potentially open them up to the possibility of either learning more about a community or maybe even working in a community one day?
NICOLE
I have two fundamental messages that I like to share. I one, I've talked a lot about the benefit of connection and what you get. So, if you are a purpose-driven individual, meaning that you really find value in work that challenges you and that you feel connected, you're not going to find anything better than our industry. We've got great organizations with great values, but the common thread is that we all really love serving people and cultivating environments for our elders to be in really is just an extension of their community. Right. So fulfillment and purpose, which this has talked about so much in workforce circles that people want purpose. They don't just want a job. And we definitely have that exponentially in our environments. So, you know, come and check us out.
I think also I would appeal to people, especially the younger generations who demonstrate a lot of creativity and are ready to reinvent things. I think there's an opportunity in our industry. We're in a climate where coming out of the pandemic, it taught us a lot of things we didn't know before. For those of us who've been around for decades, we want to build on what we call pandemic wins and help to revolutionize and move our business and our industry forward. So if you're excited, a lot of people have kind of an entrepreneurial spirit, but they like the safety net of a company. I think this is a good time to be in this industry because we're redefining it as we speak and imagining it for the future.
The other thing I would say, and this probably is more of a message to those who might want to live with us in community, is the old stereotypes whether it's what I thought about a nursing home in 2000 when I came to work here or what someone thinks about a nursing home and not wanting to live there. Right. Right. So as, as repelling was against the idea of working there, that was kind of the general tone of I will not live in a nursing home. And I think that that's still pervasive today.
And here's one little thing to consider. What we learned during the pandemic was isolation and loneliness and the effects on our wellbeing. Now, everything is caused and effect. We don't wanna move into a community, then the primary message I hear is, is I wanna retain my independence. And I think that's a valuable thing to want to pursue. But I want people to challenge that thought system and ask yourself, are you really giving up your independence to move into a community like Fowler? And are you really in a community in your external world? Meaning, living next to a young family does not mean you are in an intergenerational community relationship with that young family, right? Because we tend to congregate in same environments. If you think about how churches are structured, you've got the over 50 class and raising the family, right? Because these are our life experiences that we're sharing.
Sometimes we think only about independence and we don't think about isolation and loneliness, which we can have even when we're living in communities that we've lived in for 40 or 50 years. Here's a startling statistic. Isolation and loneliness are like smoking 15 cigarettes a day. That is the impact on your health that's come out with numerous studies.
I want people, whether they are going to live with us or whether they're going to work with us, to think about the fact that we are creating communities within communities. We're creating communities that have a purpose that people know you're there. They miss you when you're gone. They're excited to share life with you. And that's what we're creating. So we gotta let go of those old belief systems and walk into imagining what it might be. And the best way to do that is go visit a community, volunteer, walk the halls, check it out. You'll know pretty quickly what the vibe is and find one that you belong. And I mean, just boom, that's what I say. Just do it.
AMANDA
Mic drop. You heard it here first.
(18:53.75)
AMANDA
Before we end, I would love for our Uplift Aging Unfiltered segment to happen. So if you can share a powerful moment or an experience that you've had that has shifted your perspective on aging. Uplift Aging Unfiltered… go!
NICOLE
Uplift Aging Unfiltered. I feel like I'm living my life unfiltered. So this is hilarious that now I'm given license to be unfiltered. But what has shaped me or shifted my perspective? Well, I'll tell you what, going through my own aging process and recognizing my own limitations and some of those fears that creep in that you don't think about like heights or, you know, the size heels I walk in anymore, you know, that I had to start thinking about. You definitely get more insight and empathy to what the residents who live in our community do. Not that I lacked it before, but it's like now I'm starting to have my own lived experiences about physical limitations or adjustments to my life that I have to make. I think it enhances my empathy. And so, as I'm leading an organization, influencing others, it puts me in a better position to craft stories and narratives that help create those pathways for others. So I love that because I'm having that experience and I’ve got a wealth of wisdom there.
Like, I'm not going to ask a 30-year-old person what it's like to go through menopause and will you survive it. But I can for sure ask some people who have and long since gone through it and at least, you know, get the camaraderie of saying, yes, night sweats are from the devil.
I also think that what amazes me about being in communities such as ours, is you're always surprised to learn something. I think about the fact that we went into this partnership with the Hearthstone Institute for the I'm Still Here Center of Excellence for Dementia Care on our memory care neighborhood. We're in our fourth cycle of that award designation. And I would have already been 20 years in the industry, feeling like I was part of organizations who were on the cutting edge of all the care that they do and, you know, in it for the right reasons. And simple things like really understanding that even if we are living with Alzheimer's or dementia, we can still learn new things. I would have not believed that before. And maybe I was taught it or maybe I learned it, but sometimes it's the simplest, most directive message that you're just like, duh, why did I not know this? And then it's almost as if the matrix has happened and the whole perspective shifts and you're in slow motion. And then you have a totally different vantage point on the same thing.
I think those are the things that shift me now because I'm looking for them in a way that I wasn't when I was building my career. And now I'm looking for those paradigm shifts because it seems to be what we're constantly being asked to do. Think about the start of our conversation, the shift in how we think of aging how does workforce come into our environments and how are we gonna get them excited? How do we shift how people thought of nursing homes? How do we shift what residents think about living in community? I just feel like it's this super skill that we're now having to infuse in our leadership and letting us lead all things forward and having to really rely on it heavily.
AMANDA
My takeaway from that is so much can happen within community and building community with just sharing your experience. Like you were talking about, I'm gonna ask someone in their 70s, 80s who lived the experience of menopause, they made it through. They're on the other side, you know, and having them share that experience, you sharing your experience, and then you can tell the 30-year-old, hey, this is what's coming, you know.
I just love what comes from people being vulnerable enough to share those human experiences that we're all going to have and like COVID that we lived through, just those things bringing us together. And hopefully, I think, making each of us have a more accepting understanding of others, I guess? Not just an understanding of what someone has gone through, but being more accepting of that and of their experience. And I love that you and everyone who works in an aging services environment gets to experience that all the time. That is so cool.
NICOLE
It is so cool. And I'm always inspired by the talent that I see, the people who are committed to the work that we do. They are very tireless.
You know, I say all the time, the businesses we run are not easy businesses. They have regulatory environments. They have complications like workforce. And, you know, there's a never ending onslaught of what you got to figure out. But we have some really exceptional people who are committed to finding those answers.
AMANDA
And then my takeaway from that other piece that you shared is that you, you know, someone who's in this leadership position at a community of people who live there, you're responsible, you know, for people's lives and their quality of life, that you are still thirsty to learn new things, even after all that you've achieved and accomplished you're still open to learning and hearing new perspectives and hearing new information and learning new things. If we go back to what we were talking about earlier, what we thought when we were growing up, you're going to reach a certain point and you're going to know it all. Or, you’re going to have achieved it all? But I love hearing that someone in your position of leadership is continually seeking and continually learning. I think we can all gain from that.
NICOLE
I always will be, you know, think of it like we think of uplift aging. I think of it as level up leadership. There's always something to gain or learn from an experience or from somebody, but the old adage is true. The more you know, the more you know you don't know anything. And that again, from an aging process to take it all the way back to the very first question, that's the value of aging. And when you don't have to feel like you have to know all the answers or know everything, you are alleviating yourself of a lot of compounded stress that you don't need.
(25:20:-00)
AMANDA
Well, thank you, Nicole, for being here.
NICOLE
Absolutely.
AMANDA
I just appreciate the conversation and all that you're doing for Fowler and all that you're doing for Leading Age Texas and the field of aging services and uplift aging now.
NICOLE
Thanks, Amanda. And thank you to you as well. I mean, this is a big production. Like you're launching it. You're making it happen.
AMANDA
We're doing it.
NICOLE
I remember when this was just an idea. And now look at you.
AMANDA
We're doing it.
NICOLE
Microphones and recording equipment and all. You're like the real deal. So I'm really excited to again, subscribe and like and share, so that I can see what comes out of this, because I know you're going to tap into a lot of great insights. And I'm just looking forward to see what develops.
AMANDA
Thanks, Nicole.
NICOLE
So thank you and the association. Love y 'all.
AMANDA
So much love. Thank you.
NICOLE
OK, bye.
(26:20.43)
OUTRO
Thanks for tuning in to Uplift Aging, a production of Leading Age Texas. Check out this episode's show notes for more about Leading Age Texas, today's guest, and the Uplift Aging movement. Until next time, join us on socials at Uplift Aging as we continue to elevate the conversation on aging.