Ep. 001: What is aging, anyway? | Part 1 with Nicole Gann
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Welcome to the Uplift Aging Podcast's debut episode! Host Amanda Wiedenfeld and special guest Nicole Gann, MS, SPHR, President & CEO of Juliette Fowler Communities, embark on a powerful conversation about the profound journey of aging.
This episode elevates the conversation on aging by diving into the question, "What is aging, anyway?" Welcome to the Uplift Aging Podcast's debut episode! Host Amanda Wiedenfeld and special guest Nicole Gann, MS, SPHR, President & CEO of Juliette Fowler Communities, embark on a powerful conversation about the profound journey of aging.
This episode elevates the conversation on aging by diving into the question, "What is aging, anyway?" and the duo chat about:
Aging is more than "just getting old"; it is a testament to a life lived and a journey of growth and wisdom.
It is time to shift the narrative from anti-aging to ageless, celebrating the experiences and lessons that come with age.
Examining and challenging our own belief systems about aging can help us create a more positive and inclusive perspective.
Aging is a shared experience that connects people of all ages, and we can learn from and support each other throughout the journey.
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Episode breakdown:
00:00 | Defining aging
02:23 | Introducing Nicole Gann
03:14 | Starting a movement
05:05 | Aging as a shared experience
08:18 | Challenging the anti-aging narrative
09:17 | Examining belief systems
13:33 | Celebrating aging
14:42 | Curating a positive perspective
17:26 | The importance of knowing yourself and your values
22:30 | Embracing the joys and challenges of aging
28:36 | Life is 50-50
28:51 | Part 2 of This Interview is Coming Soon
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Special thanks to Nicole Gann, MS, SPHR and Juliette Fowler Communities in Dallas, Texas!
This episode is made possible by LeadingAge Texas' Partners: Functional Pathways, LeadingAge Texas Health Plan, Inc., and Ziegler; along with LeadingAge Texas' Platinum Sponsors: Communities of Faith, RRG and Value First.
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Visit upliftaging.org/episodes for show notes and more information about each episode.
Join the movement as we continue to elevate the conversation on aging by visiting upliftaging.org and following us on our socials @upliftaging.
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The Uplift Aging Podcast is a production of LeadingAge Texas.
Transcript - Ep. 001 (auto-generated)
INTRO (00:04.47)
This is Uplift Aging, the podcast that's more than a podcast. This is a challenge to embrace growing older, confront negative stereotypes, and better understand what may come with aging. I'm your host, Amanda Wiedenfeld. Together, let's uplift aging.
(00:35.018)
Amanda
Today we're diving deep into the question, what is aging anyway? Before we get into our conversation, let's try to gain some clarity. I figured the best place to start would be turning to the dictionary.
(00:52.13)
Amanda
So according to Merriam-Webster, aging is defined as to become old or to show the effects or the characteristics of increasing age.
Even further, an article from the World Health Organization explains aging as the results from the impact of the accumulation of a wide variety of molecular and cellular damage over time. This article goes on to say that beyond biological changes, aging is often associated with other life transitions such as retirement, relocation to more appropriate housing, and the death of friends and partners.
Okay, so this gives us an idea of what aging means on paper per se, but it's so much more than that. And today we're going to elevate the conversation on aging beyond these mere definitions. We're going to explore with an expert in the aging services field, what it means to age. So here we go. What is aging anyway? Joining me in conversation is Nicole Gann.
President and CEO of Juliet Fowler Communities in Dallas, Texas. Nicole has more than 20 years experience in the healthcare industry and is renowned in the aging services field as an expert on leadership and professional development.
(02:23.174)
Nicole
Thanks, Amanda. How exciting. I know. Uplift Aging. Episode one. Here we go. It's going to be so fun. You guys are so smart and brilliant to think of these good things. So I'm happy to participate in some small way.
Amanda
Well, thank you. And I hope, yes, that this is really seen and used as a movement and not just, okay, it's another thing that someone who's talking about aging is doing, talking about health is doing, but really a movement to change the perception.
Nicole
Well, like all good movements, they have to start somewhere, right? So now would be a good time to say subscribe and share, share these stories because we need your help. We do. In this grassroots effort until we become worldwide. Worldwide. We're starting a community. Join us. I love it.
Amanda
Exactly. I love it. Well, we are talking about what is aging anyway. So my first question to you is what does aging mean to you?
Nicole
Immediately, I think of the trite response that it's better than the alternative because if we're not aging, it probably means we're six feet under or in an urn somewhere, whatever your mode of exiting the world is, right? So it's better than the alternative. But honestly, if I dig a little bit deeper, I really think it's a testament to a life lived. I mean, if you think about it, if we change and shift our perspective or the lens that we look through this, because I think we hyper-focus on all the negative aspects, like our graying hair or our thinning hair or gravity taking a hold of our skin, which listen, it's real life people, but that's a whole another podcast, right? But there are a lot of benefits that come along with that. And I think especially in the aging services field, I see that every day in residents that are living to a hundred and beyond, right? And just the experience and the wisdom and the things that they have witnessed, the relationships they've had that they've lost, how they've learned how to not sweat the small stuff, you know, and that they just embrace each day for what it has to offer, right? And that's good and bad, right? Sometimes we're gonna wake up and say, it's a beautiful morning, and some days we're gonna wake up and say I'm gonna stay in bed. And they're both equally good, but I think aging is really a testament to us moving forward and of our resilience and our perseverance and, you know, just building that lifelong wisdom and experience.
Amanda
I love that. I love that and I think that's something that anyone at any age can take and use in their daily life. All of this wisdom.
Nicole
So true because we tend to think of aging just in older adults. But I want all of us to think about our journey kind of from the cradle to now. Everything is a lesson. We're aging. You're not the same person you were at five years old or 10 years old or 20 years old for that matter. Right. I think that it's so much more relatable and a connecting factor than we really give credit for. They're going to be people ahead of us. And of course they've aged longer. Right. And there are people behind us and we tend to think, Oh gosh, they're young and I'm old, but it really just means that they're at a stage of the journey that we've already visited.
And so we can impart wisdom just like you do with your son, right? You're imparting the wisdom that you've gained to try to help him be the best little human possible. So we're all aging. It's a shared experience. That's kind of how I like to think about it. We're just in different stages.
Amanda
I like the shared experience. I think that, well, through COVID, that was something that seemed to be what connected people so much bonded some people and maybe didn't bond other people, but the more shared experiences that we can have and focus on, the more together we can be as a community, as people, as humanity. I love that.
Nicole
I love that too. You make me think of one thing I would add on to what is aging. It's a growing fully into yourself more and more every day. You know more about yourself every day. And so you make different choices. And I think it's growing towards your most authentic self. Because if your journey's been anything like mine, you had a lot of labels you put on yourself or you had a lot of, I have to do this, right? It's that traditional path. I've gotta get out of school, I've gotta get a job, I've gotta get married, whatever the narrative is for your little culture that you're in. Absolutely. But when I really appreciate it, as I grow more and more, into myself, truly who I am, you know? And I think that's true for most people.
Amanda
I agree. I love that. And it's hard to see too when you're in the beginning stages of the aging journey. It's so hard to see that because you want to become whatever that person is, right? And then you think that it's going to be a finish line kind of thing. Like you're going to just get there one day and then- There's no finish line. And then you don't. There's just no finish line. But that's awesome that we can still continually like work on ourselves, figure out who we are, embrace who we are.
Nicole
Yeah, make choices, find new passions, discover things, learn things. That's the beauty of it. Because there's too much to do and discover. So I want as much life as I can to do it all.
Amanda
Well, it's no secret that culturally speaking in our society today, we alluded to it a little bit with the graying of the hair, the gravity on the face, all of the things that we are we are anti-aging. I did notice yesterday, I saw a commercial, it was like for a beauty product, of course, but instead of saying anti-aging, ageless, is what it was using. And I was like, okay, I can definitely get behind that. So I love that we're becoming more aware of the stigma that comes with that narrative of anti-aging, especially within the beauty world. I can definitely appreciate that someone somewhere in a marketing meeting was like, Hey, let's take a look at this, the anti, why are we doing the anti? What could we maybe do instead?
When I was preparing for our podcast today, I was like, oh, you know, everyone's anti-aging. And then I saw that last night. Well, maybe, you know, our society is becoming more aware.
What can we do on a smaller level to help get rid of that anti-aging sentiment?
(09:17.282)
Nicole
Yeah, I think exploring our own belief systems is always a good place to start, right? What do we have a reaction to, whether it's good or bad and why, that kind of informs that belief system. And I love how you say, what's the thing that we can do kind of small from our perspective or even in our communities, right? Sometimes when we think of big problems like ageism in America, right? And that can have a tendency to put the kind of thought or idea or the feelings in our body that it's overwhelming and I'm just one person.
But if I really dig down and scale back from that and just say, how do I view ageism? Even those of us who work in the aging services, I think we have stereotypes that we've bought too, that we're a bill of goods that we just kind of drug along with us, we're not even consciously aware of anymore. And you make a good point, the conversation is shifting. I think community is shifting. I think all of this awareness about so many things is really this collective examination of why did we believe what we want it to be. And if we want to believe different, what would that look like? How can we honor and value all kinds of kinds, all ages, all things? There was really probably never one ideal, even though so many of us were socialized or indoctrinated into that there was, right? I mean, that was real, because we had marketing messages and they're very powerful, as you know. But there's never really been one standard.
If you look around your community, there's so many types of beautiful, there's so many types of old and young, because it's all relative, the perspective of the lens that the person's experience is informing them of, right? True. So, you know, just examining what we say, the words we choose, so another excellent point you make, anti-aging, completely different thought system is evoked as opposed to ageless. And aren't we really just trying to empower or unlock, you know, our best selves, right? So why wouldn't we be selective of the choices of the words that we use? Yeah. Right?
I mean, there's just natural things that go along with any process. We know we will keep staying with the hair and gravity. It's just a reality. I mean, your body changes significantly fundamentally every decade of your life, right? And in the fifth decade of mine, I don't really like all the changes, but they're not gonna stop. So how do I embrace them? How do I take care of myself better? How do I understand some of those limitations that I have and still make it work for me? It does not change who I am internally. It doesn't change my passion. It doesn't change my desire to be creative. It doesn't change my desire to connect with people. That never turns off.
And I think in our country, especially, it's almost as if when someone retires, it's like, oh, are they just gonna be put on a shelf? I mean, like really think about that belief system. Because you're just, as I said a minute ago, you're growing more into yourself. When you retire, you're going off into the chapter of your life where you get to make the most aligned choices. Like you're showing up and doing what you want to do and choose to do the majority of the time, as opposed to when you're working for someone, you have a different agenda, right?
Like why wouldn't we all be celebrating it and thinking, I cannot wait to get to this.
Amanda
Truly, that's like you get to the base camp when you're climbing a mountain. Okay, so you get there and you finally like, oh my gosh, we're here. And then you get to ascend even further or you get to explore more. You get to see better.
Nicole
So where's the celebration? Where's the anticipation? I know we anticipate graduating high school, graduating college, marriages, births. Why aren't we anticipating aging?
Amanda
Especially with the retirement, we think of it as like an end. Like you did all of this in your career and yes, that should be celebrated, right? But it's such an end. The party was had and then you go off. But yeah, you're right. The anticipation, the celebratory nature of it all. We're missing that.
Nicole
Yeah, we're missing it. So I think we just celebrate the fact, whether it's ourselves or whether it's the communities that we serve, we just find ways to celebrate that we're all on this journey and we're aging together. Cue and the Game. Celebrate good times.
There you go. We can't use it because of the copyright. For those of you who know, you know. You know the one.
(13:46.094)
Amanda
How can we better empower people, empower others to see that aging, healthier, happier, all of those things are what we should all be searching and doing and celebrating?
Nicole
Come to our communities. I mean, so here's where the best things happen at our member communities, right? And I get to go to so many of them across the state and even visit some nationally. There are some amaizing things happening with all ages, but specifically the focus on older adults. There's some really cool stuff happening.
I think changing the amount of information you take in, we're inundated with that anti-aging slant. How are we creating pathways to balance the information or dare I say even shift the tides?
So your work here on this podcast is one thing, committing to listening to it wherever it drops, whenever it drops, for the little time in your life that it would take because it's planting those seeds in your mind that then you're gonna build off of to team meetings or conversations you're having, right? But then mine those stories at your communities. Get on social. There's so many great social presences. You heard it first here on this podcast. Presence out there in communities that you see the fun side of what we do.
I need people to let go of this old stereotype of what they thought kind of an old school nursing home was because we're so much more. We're communities where people are thriving in the final chapters of their life where they're still finding connection and purpose and meaning and they're still learning and they're still growing, right? So let's give ourselves more of that information to help balance out. Because our brains, they're very ritualistic, they believe the stuff that we tell them, even if it's true, they believe what we feed it, even if it's true. And even kind of non-active listening or reading or scanning is still giving us something. So how are we gonna be intentional about what we digest that's the other side of the coin, so to speak. And then how are we going to start those conversations? I think it's important to be specific.
So for example, if I'm leading Fowler, which I am, telling people what we're fostering here, building a vision, what we're creating, the words that we choose. Like at Fowler, we're starting a campaign in the future that you belong and we thrive here. Because they solicit totally different feelings and emotions than maybe some of the other words, which were lovely that we used, but you're trying to speak to someone here, in the heart, not here. So we have to start those conversations and we have to be specific and we have to invite others to come along with us.
Amanda
I love that. And I love the intentionality of all of that. Truly, I think so much of it comes to with really knowing yourself, or in specifically with Fowler, knowing what Fowler stands for, what it is, what it wants to be, and then using that as the tool to bring others on board. I think that too, it's like as we age and we're growing and we're understanding more about ourselves, then we can be more intentional with what we choose to feed ourselves in terms of information, how we choose to approach things or people in conversation, being intentional for sure.
Nicole
Here's a word I would leave you with too, it's curating. So I have a dear friend and colleague, Ann McKinley, she's retiring from Fowler. She has one week left and we've worked together since 2008. So I just love her dearly. And one of the things I said in her fair world host is that she's a master curator. She curates spaces, she curates messages, she curates relationships. She curates our history at Fowler. She's just tireless. She got the job just through her own passion. She's like our historian.
But curate is an interesting word when you think about it. It's the gathering and the cultivating of things to work towards a certain vibe, if you will. You do that in your home. You do that through the choices of the things that you wear, the people that you interact with. So let's think of aging as a curation of what we are going to attract that informs us, that helps us navigate the bumpy parts. Cause there will be, let's not pretend that they don't exist. This is not about Pollyanna. This is about a real conversation of what people experience and live, but it's from the hardships and also the joy.
And so take that word curating with you and ask yourself, how am I curating this conversation in my own mind, but in my communities and in my circles?
Amanda
Curating, and we're all curators.
Nicole
Yeah. Because we're building constantly. And our residents are the same way. They leave things with us. You cannot be around that richness and that wisdom without gaining something. And so when I constantly say, come work in Aging Services, which I do. And listen, people come work at Fowler, FowlerCommunities.org, but it's so rewarding. People just don't realize it because they're bought into this old narrative and this old stereotype, but it's not a place where we're just sitting around crying and lamenting all the time. We're laughing and having fun and having parties and drinking wine if you're a Fowler is a big thing.
Amanda
Cheers!
Nicole
Eeating cake, doing all the things.
Amanda
Experiencing life with other people. Exactly. And yeah, what a gift to be able to work in a place where you can experience that every day.
Nicole
And you're seeing the people that are impacted by what you do. I grew up in my career in manufacturing and I worked for some great organizations and we were making some amazing products, right? People had a really good opinion about these organizations. But when I came to Aging Services, it's hard for me to sometimes impress upon people what the reality is when you're not making something that you're selling to somebody and they say, oh, this is cool. It's cool. You work there, but you're looking in the face of someone that's impacted by the policies you make, the choices you make and who you recruit and hire, how you train the services that you have. Like you're looking them in the face and they're saying, I trust you. I believe in you. It's a tremendous amount of pressure, but the reality is too, they're so genuinely appreciative of what you're creating that I've just, I've never have left aging services because of that, because you just feel so purpose driven. And you don't want to let anybody down, the team or residents or their families. And of course mistakes always happen, but you know, they're there to encourage and tell you this is not the end of the world.
And then you hear their stories when they ran companies or they ran businesses and there were dynamics. It's just, it's the connection to the people that you're serving. You're seeing the impact of what you do every single day. And that's pretty special from my vantage point.
Amanda
Absolutely. And how can it not impact you? Like working in that field, you or anyone, I mean, working in the field of aging services at any level. I mean, like, yes, if you're going into work every day and you're having these experiences with people, with humans, with other humans. How can you not come away with that?
Nicole
Some days you don't because it's too people-y and you're just like, I do not want to deal with the peoples.
Amanda
I can't people right now.
Nicole
I cannot not people right now. But yeah, no, the majority is exactly what you described. And that's where you can find your greatest comfort. That's been true for me.
Amanda
That's beautiful.
(22:02.262)
Amanda
What can the average person do who maybe doesn't work in a community do to make spaces available for people to embrace both the joys and the challenges of aging and what it means to age?
Nicole
You know, for me, I think I'm going to say this and it's going to seem so obvious, the blinding obvious. It's like life is 50-50. There's no one intellectually that thinks life is supposed to be without hardships. And yet, if you think about the way we react to things, it's like we're reacting from the perspective like how dare this hardship interrupt my otherwise perfect life.
Amanda
Absolutely, every time.
Nicole
Because we're railing against it like the why. Why did this happen? Why did this person do to me? Why did I get this illness? Why did my house burn down? It's the whys. And the reality is, is all those things just happened, right? It's the difference in thinking life is happening to you instead of for you.
So I always try to give myself an other’s perspective because I know when I'm in the extreme places, whether it's extreme happiness or extreme lows, that's just that it's the extreme poles, but most of life is lived in the middle. If I bought in too much to the extreme high, I'd always be chasing it and maybe do it in ways that are unhealthy. If I always bought into the extreme lows again, probably unhealthy. But if I accept the fact that my life, for however long I live it, and whatever age I have been, has been an illustration of amazing things and horrific.
I mean, I can tell you every decade of my life where something that I would not want to live again happened. But I also had extreme triumphs and things that maybe I would want to live again, but you know, you can't go back either way, but it's recognizing that life is 50-50. And I think when we do that, we're more accepting of the hardships or the realities and when we are more accepting of them, then we can talk about them.
I try to be very transparent in the sense of where I am today was hard fought. There were casualties. I was maimed. Maybe I did some maiming, I built myself up, I built others up. All of that is part of this journey. And I wouldn't want anyone to look at me and say, gosh, it was so easy or it must be easy. Like you hear this all the time. Well, it must be easy to be the person in charge.
Amanda
Of course.
Nicole
Is it? I mean, it has its advantages, right? But at the same time, the buck stops with you too, and you have this tremendous amount of responsibility. But I just think that it's all there. So let's talk about it because you're gonna, you and I have had so many conversations about you being a younger woman at the stage of your journey and me as I call myself the elder statesman. But it's like whenever I'm sharing a story, it's not because I think that anything has gone wrong for you. It's just me relating to your experience and saying, hey, if this helps you, I experienced this, if there's something for you to learn. Sometimes it's just offering that encouragement to reinforce that this too shall pass. Because I just have a little bit more experience in believing that because I've had to apply it a lot more. Or I've had the people that were older than me, you know, reinforce it for me. It doesn't make the angst of living through the hardships any lesser.
Amanda
Yeah.
Nicole
And that's the other thing too, is that you can't do anything to make bad feelings go away. We think we can if it was just this person or just this situation or just this wouldn't happen. But if we're really taking a deep look at it, we know that's not true.
Amanda
Absolutely.
Nicole
Right? And so let's just embrace it. Let's learn from one another. Let's not be afraid to talk about, you know, the hair, the skin.
Amanda
Yes. Yes!
Nicole
Because listen, if someone's out there got a tip, I'm here for it.
Amanda
Yes, send all the tips!
Nicole
Put in the tips in the comments, tag me, do all the things, because I will try it all!
Amanda
We're okay with the tips.
Nicole
Exactly, but we can't give the tips or do all that if we're afraid to share that. So we gotta have the conversation about the good, bad, and the ugly and just expect that it's always gonna be the good, bad, and the ugly and that's okay, nothing went wrong.
Amanda
It's true, it's so true. It's like anti-culture to be like, of course something is going to happen because it's life and it's human and that things just happen sometimes. It's not for a reason, just things happen. It does. Bad things happen and also good things happen. And I love that you're talking about that duality. That's just the nature of it.
Nicole
Yeah. Well, you know who I'm always fangirling after? My girl, Brene Brown. So, Anatomy of the Heart. Love that book, but it's got all the emotions in there and all the stories that we can all relate to. And she does a masterful job helping us navigate the map of our own hearts and being comfortable with the conversations that can heal us and move us forward, in the reality of what life is going to give to us.
So, I just say to everybody, you know, lean in and ask yourself, what's going to serve me and move me forward, not necessarily keep me stuck. It's just a better place to be. It's taken a lot of my years of my life and an application of really retraining my brain. So I'm not saying that this is just a switch you make overnight because there are a lot of times I act surprised.
Amanda
Of course. You’re human
Nicole
And still I'm like, Oh, no, they didn't. What is this happening for? If they would just listen to me, what has, what is going on that you have? But, I have probably five to 15 minutes, maybe a day, and then I calibrate right back in, right?
Amanda
Recalibrate - I love that
Nicole
So it's an ongoing practice. And an awareness where you catch yourself and you say, okay, I don't wanna pile onto myself, I wanna find a way out, you know, or I wanna accept it, live through it, and then I know that something else is gonna, you know, come down the road, so.
Amanda
Right, because again, life. And that's just, that's what aging is. We're just, we're just continuing on.
Nicole
Start there. Just expect life is 50-50. Your hair is going to change. Your hormones are going to change.
Amanda
But then you're also going to gain wisdom. You're also going to gain experience. 50-50. Like, that's just what it is.
Nicole
Just what it is. And you just keep repeating those messages to yourself and then you're training your brain to believe that too.
(28:36.854)
Amanda
Does this leave you wanting to hear more from Nicole? Well, you're in luck. This was just part one of my conversation with her. Tune in next time for part two.
Outro (28:51.906)
Thanks for tuning in to Uplift Aging, a production of Leading Age Texas. Check out this episode's show notes for more about Leading Age Texas, today's guest and the Uplift Aging movement. Until next time, join us on socials @upliftaging as we continue to elevate the conversation on aging.
Outtakes (29:19.622)
I think you should have the extended version of this as outtakes for those who want to watch and listen. Can you imagine? Oh my gosh. It would be hilarious. It would be good. I mean, Silverback Gorilla. That's going to be the intro. Just want to let you know. I'm just going to save a little cold open. Coming to you with Leading Age's very own Silverback Gorilla, Nicole Gann.